via europa


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vE During the last couple of years, the European Union has made various efforts in creating supranational structures (e.g. one single European currency, one common parliament, etc....). What is America’s perception of a stronger European Union?

I think there is no single American perception, by the way, as I speak for myself. I think some Americans wonder whether all this supranationalism makes Europe stronger. There is an understanding if you have common this, common that and common the other, you are naturally stronger – maybe but I am not sure. If Europe develops a common foreign security policy where individual nation states lose some of their sovereignty and lose their room for maneuver we can argue that on the one hand it forms a block – and a block may look bigger and stronger - and on the other hand it will definitely lose some flexibility and I wonder if one seize fits all foreign policy where the Danes and the Portuguese, and the British and the Greeks are forced to adopt one point of view is really strength in the end – we will see but it is still theoretical.

I think Americans feel still a little bit ambivalent about deeper European integration. But as far as I can tell, Europeans do, too. I don’t know any European who is against a stronger Europe. But on the other hand I know lots of Europeans who wonder how you get there and whether giving up lots and lots of sovereignty to Brussels is always the right way in each and every case.

vE In what ways can America profit from a more integrated European Union, both from an economic as well as political point of view?

First of all, certainly America does not profit from a Europe that is weak and I think everybody understands that. I don’t know really any Americans who want Europe to be weak. That’s why Americans broadly – Democrats and Republicans – have asked Europe for years to spend more on defense, not because we want Europe to be weak, but because we want Europe to be strong. That’s why Americans – Democrats and Republicans – have asked some European countries to reform and liberalize their labor market so that they will have less unemployment and greater growth, not because that they will be weak, but we think that there can be more economic dynamism in Europe. And Germany and France are not very dynamic economies; they are flat economies. So, I don’t think any American wants Europe to be weak.

A united and more integrated Europe, as we said, may be stronger in some ways and may be weaker in some ways. The advantages and disadvantages for the United States I think are clear. You said economically - we deal with that united Europe already and we deal with it as a competitor but mostly as a partner. That’s a relationship that functions pretty well.

On the political and strategic side – it is unclear. If the United States and other allies, let’s say Japan, Australia and South Korea, decided if there was a problem like Saddam Hussein that had to be dealt with with the use of force and the European Union were united and supported the United States, Japan, Australia and South Korea, then obviously, from an American perspective, that would be enormously helpful. But if you take the Iraq scenario where this united Europe stood against the United States, or let me be more specific, what if under the rules of a common foreign security policy there are individual countries that disagree with other individual countries and Germany, France and Belgium and several other said “No, that war is a bad idea.” And Britain and Poland and Portugal and Denmark and the Netherlands and Italy and Lithuania said “No, this war is a good idea”. Well, if there were rules that precluded those individual countries of helping the United States, created a common European position to work against the United States that would not be an American interest – that’s a possible scenario.

vE Let us look into the future, now. As we are facing many challenges today, such as the political situation in the Middle East, the fight on terrorism, the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction ... , should Europeans and Americans work as partners, and, if so, to what extent can we learn from one another?

Yes, we should work with partners. There is still much more that unites us than divides us. We are democracies and I said we have common values but not core values but broadly speaking we share liberal values. We both believe in rule of law, in democracy, human rights and private property and market economy. We differ on tales, we differ on emphasis, but broadly we agree on those things. And in the Middle East and in other parts of the world we can accomplish much, much more if we are working closely together. Now, what do we learn from each other: I think a classic example can be the case of Iran where we have a common agenda. We both want to be sure that we do not allow the Mullahs to acquire nuclear weapons. What can Americans learn from the Europeans: patience, investment in diplomacy, careful strategic reflection about how we want to work this problem. I think the Europeans know Iran, the Europeans have a big investment in seeing diplomacy succeed and I think a little bit of patience and prudence is not a bad idea.

Now, what can the Europeans learn from Americans: carrots alone, usually don’t solve these problems. We need a combination of carrots and sticks. This is a tough regime, it is regime that represses its people, it supports terrorism, it played cheat and retreat for a number of years on this nuclear program and it certainly is imprudent to think that only by indulgences we are going to get them to behave. Look, this is a gross thing to say but I am saying it anyway: the American gangster Al Capone in the 1920s in Chicago once said you can get a lot more in this world with a smile and a gun than you can with a gun alone. I am not advocating gangsterism as a model for European or American or anybody’s foreign policy. But let’s be honest about this – these are tough guys, and if you go in and say we are going to give you aid, trade and contracts if you behave nice, and if you don’t behave nice we don’t know what we are going to do - that is an invitation to bad behavior. So I think that’s a case where close cooperation, close partnership on both sides could be fruitful and it is a test case, we will see how it goes.